The following is a transcript of an interview with former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Bridget Brink, the noodles aired on May 18, 2025 on “Facing the Country with Margaret Brennan.”
Margaret Brennan: Ambassador Bridget Brink resigned as the top U.S. diplomat and explained why last week. Brink wrote in Detroit Free Media that despite her long-standing role as a professional diplomat, she said: “No longer sincerely enforces the administration’s policies, accusing President Trump and his team of putting pressure on victim Ukraine, not on invader Russia. For more information, we are now joined by Ambassador Brink. Ambassador, it’s great to have you here.
Ambassador Bridget Brink: Hi Margaret, thank you so much for keeping me going.
Margaret Brennan: You have served this country for decades. What happened to make you say, “I can’t accept it”?
amb. Brink: OK, maybe let me give you some background. What I saw in Ukraine was shocking. For three years, Russia has fired missiles and drones at sleeping men, women and children, trying to dismantle the energy grid of millions of Ukrainians to take away power, heat and light in the middle of the winter and commit war crimes and atrocities at some level that we have not seen since World War II. I resigned from Ukraine to diplomatic service because the policy since the beginning of the government is to put pressure on Ukrainian victims, not on the invader Russia. I totally agree that the war needs to end, but I believe that peace is not peace at any price. It's a kind of appropriate, and as we know from history, appropriate only leads to more wars.
Margaret Brennan: Be clear that you are a professional diplomat, so no matter who is the president of the United States, what party they come from, it means you serve. Actually, when you try to leave your post in January, Secretary Rubio asked you to stay in Kiev, and as far as I understand you stayed there for several months until April. Is this policy a special issue for you? Because you did it. Your job in a position under the Trump administration. Is there a trigger that makes you say we got it wrong?
Bridget Brink: Well, I want to say it wasn't a difficult, hasty, rash decision. This is the first three months since I took over the government. But the first sign was the Oval Office meeting in February, President Trump and President Zelensky, where I saw our approach was to put pressure on Ukraine, not on Russia.
Margaret Brennan: The president and the policy of this administration, you heard Secretary Rubio said it was just to stop the battle. Do you see that the United States has leverage here?
amb. Edge: Yes, of course we have leverage -
Margaret Brennan: In Russia?
Bridget Brink: Yes, of course we will do that. I mean, we are leaders in the free world. I think it makes it clear to us that Russia and Putin have invaded a sovereign, independent, democratic country in the center of Europe with the help of North Korea, Iran and China. Fundamentally, it is our European interest as our largest trading partner, which is 16 million jobs on both continents, and this war or any fanatical, unresolved war on the edge of Europe is very bad for the United States. So, what do we need to do as the United States? We need to blend with our partners and allies to pressure Russia to end the war. And there are many ways to do this. We can impose other sanctions in the energy sector of the banking industry. Russia is not as powerful as some say, or some think. The economy is hurting. Their interest rate is 20% - 21% and their inflation rate is 10%. So it's time to increase the pressure on Russia and bring Putin to the table instead of reducing the pressure on Russia.
Margaret Brennan: We know that President Trump and President Putin plan to speak on Monday when you are still in Kiev. President Zelenskyy called the U.S. embassy after he called it a disappointing U.S. embassy after he called it a missile strike. He said you must not be afraid to call by their name, and the United States is even afraid to speak the word Russian when talking about missiles that murder children. Do you feel that American officials speak frankly and honestly?
amb. Brink: I mean, the job as a diplomat is to reflect and represent the policies of the president and the government. That's our job. That's - that's what we do as professionals and work for five different presidents that need to reflect the policies that the president has made constitutional. So, for me, the real question is, how will we end this war in a way that is in America’s interest? For this, it is not peace anyway. It must be a peace that can do things that promote our own interests, and these are indeed very simple. This is how to keep Ukraine free, how to stop Russia and how to send the right signal to China. This is what we should do. I think every step we take in diplomacy should try to help achieve this.
Margaret Brennan: What do you call them?
amb. Brink: For us, as leaders of the free world, it is important to be clear and accurate, and I think this is an important moment in history. We have seen the destruction that takes place when comforting the invaders and we don’t want to do it again. Therefore, my strong suggestion on how to deal with Putin and Russia is not to have a meeting, concession or legality before Putin agrees to an unconditional ceasefire that is verifiable and moves towards a just and lasting peace. On this basis, I can see dialogue and diplomacy that can realize our interests.
Margaret Brennan: At the State Department, we have seen some huge changes in the Secretary Rubio, and these professionals will somehow advise the Secretary and the President on these policies. He said he would close 132 offices and merge the bureau, and he would lay off about 15% of his employees. Eliminate the office. You think when you make these changes, it affects how to make the right decision? Does all this help our foreign policy or does it undermine the ability to shape it?
amb. Brink: I mean, again, working for five presidents, each new administration adopts a range of goals, and what we do as a professional civil servant is to implement and implement them as much as we can. I don't think that cutting the State Department in a way that takes away our diplomatic powers will help us realize the interests of the United States, and there is a key part of the State Department - ensuring our security is more than just a broader security for the defense. There is cybersecurity, fighting false information, and ensuring that there are free media and free media. That's all we do as part of the State Council. So, I think our work is really important. As many people say, my concern is that if you don't fully fund the State Department, you need a larger military budget. Because of what we do - we do it in small, sometimes quiet and unknown ways, so we help prevent war. We help open markets to U.S. businesses. We help American citizens when they are injured or are injured overseas. We play a very important role, not necessarily the most public role, but I think this is a key role for US foreign policy and national interests.
Margaret Brennan: Just like you have been doing this for many years, often in war zones far away from your family. Ambassador Brink thanks you very much for sharing your insights with us. We will be back later.