On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Ed O'Keefe:
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
ED O'KEEFE: I'm Ed O'Keefe in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: The papal conclave comes to a surprise ending, while there's growing concerns over our aging air traffic control system ahead of a busy summer travel season.
After recent air traffic control blackouts at Newark Airport, are our skies safe? And will travelers see more airline delays or higher ticket prices this summer? We will talk to United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby.
Plus: surprise and jubilation here in the United States and at the Vatican, the selection of a new pope, the first ever American in church history. What kind of impact will Leo XIV, with his American roots and Peruvian ties, have on the Catholic Church? We will discuss with Chicago's Cardinal Blase Cupich.
And, as President Trump prepares for his first formal international trip, Russian President Vladimir Putin says he's open to peace talks with the Ukrainians, as tensions rise between India and Pakistan. Texas Republican Congressman Mike McCaul, New Mexico Democratic Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, and British Ambassador to the U.S. Peter Mandelson all weigh in on the news of the week.
It's all ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. I'm Ed O'Keefe. Margaret is off this week. A happy Mother's Day to her and to all the other moms watching.
We have got a lot to get to today, but we have just learned that there have now been three outages in Newark Liberty International Airport in recent weeks. The latest came overnight and caused a 45-minute ground stop. At this point, the FAA says that third episode was an equipment outage. We will update you as we learn more.
Now, Newark is a major hub for United Airlines. We spoke Saturday before this latest incident with the airline's CEO, Scott Kirby, and asked him, is it safe to be flying in and out of Newark right now?
(Begin VT)
SCOTT KIRBY (CEO, United Airlines): It absolutely is safe at Newark and in the entire country.
And the reason is, when these kinds of outages happen, we train for them. We have backup procedures. We have backups to backups to backups to keep the skies safe, which is always the number one priority.
And in situations like this, when the radar outage happened at Newark, what happens is the pilots look for alternative frequencies. They go to alternative centers with alternative radars, and they also have a system in the airplane where they can see – it's equivalent of radar.
They can see their position in the air in the sky and all the other aircraft around them. But what we do is slow the whole system down, which is disruptive to customers, but it's entirely safe.
ED O'KEEFE: Newark is your biggest global gateway on the East Coast. Given the problems there and the need, as you've described them, to slow things down, what other adjustments are you making to operations?
And, especially with the travel season picking up into the summer, how is that potentially affecting the schedule?
SCOTT KIRBY: Well, at United, our number one priority is safety, but number two is our customers.
And, in this case, what we've done is we've proactively reduced flights out of the schedule. The FAA is working with other airlines to do the same, so that we can have the number of flights scheduled at the airport that the airport can accommodate.
Pruning the number of flights just creates more space at the airport, allows the airport to operate effectively. There's also runway construction going on. That will be over June 15. That's going to double the capacity of the airport when that happens.
ED O'KEEFE : Well, if you're pruning the schedule, then that means less supply with increasing demand going into the summer. Doesn't that potentially mean the cost of a ticket is going to go up?
SCOTT KIRBY: My guess is, if you look at the ticket prices flying out of Newark right now, that, in fact, is not what is happening.
There's less demand because there's concerns about safety. And – and so what we've also done is put bigger airplanes on the route, so put a larger airplane, have fewer flights, but with bigger airplanes to maintain the number of seats that we have flying in and out of Newark. And air travel remains a pretty strong bargain across the country and around the globe.
And demand is – is strong. And we look forward to carrying, you know, several 100,000 customers a day every day this summer.
ED O'KEEFE: There's the cost potentially to the customer. How about the financial impact on United?
SCOTT KIRBY: Well, there will be a financial impact on United, but our number one priority is safety.
We aren't even thinking or talking about that.
ED O'KEEFE: Well, and there is the broader issue of – bigger picture of air travel.
And you just acknowledged that demand is down in part because people are concerned about safety, with all the issues that have happened so far this year. But you've also got economic turmoil prompted by tariffs. There's lingering concerns about inflation.
And you've said you can't predict how customers are going to be spending their money going forward. So, I mean, what is the potential negative impact on the travel industry through the rest of the year?
SCOTT KIRBY: You know, the travel industry and United Airlines, in particular, demand has been resilient.
You know, we saw a hit to demand, beginning in February. Demand declined from what we were expecting it to be. But it stabilized into March and – and April and actually has gotten a little bit better in May. And so, you know, everything I can see – we're a pretty good real-time indicator of the economy at United Airlines.
And everything I can see is, the consumer is cautious, but still in pretty good shape.
ED O'KEEFE: You know, you talk about this world-class air traffic control system we have. You can control the aircraft. You can control the quality of the pilot you put on that aircraft to fly it. You can control the schedule, but you do not control who's in the tower and how many people are in the tower.
So, you say it's a world-class air traffic control system. How can you assure passengers of that, given all the issues we've seen, especially this year, with the FAA?
SCOTT KIRBY: Well, we need to upgrade the system to actually make it world-class.
But air traffic controllers are the best in the world, incredible professionals, and they keep the skies safe. And what happens when they're short-staffed or there's a technology issue, they slow the airspace down. Essentially, what they do is put more miles between airplanes.
That gives them the ability to manage and handle it. It leads to customer impacts. We have to delay or cancel flights, because there are more flights scheduled than can arrive, but it keeps the system safe. And that's absolutely what they should do.
ED O'KEEFE: You've done a very good job of laying out how concerned and how focused you guys are on safety, but you know there are still people out there who are genuinely just afraid to fly, especially given the incident here in Washington, the plane that flipped over on a runway up in Toronto, all the near misses or the clipped wings.
What do you say to that person who thinks, OK, you say things are safe, but I see all these other issues going on, why should I get on an airplane?
SCOTT KIRBY: You know, I understand where they're coming from, read the same headlines that they do.
But it is – it's the safest industry by far in the world. It's the safest way to travel by far. The United States is the leader in safety of everyone around the globe. And I know that. I'm in it, and I know it. I understand how people feel and empathize with that, but I know that it's safe because I have spent my whole career.
I know all the people in aviation, whether they work at United Airlines, other airlines, at the FAA. Safety is number one, and it is in the core DNA of everyone.
ED O'KEEFE: We have seen reports in recent days, speaking of the FAA, that they're going to get together with you and other airlines that fly into Newark to talk about voluntarily having you reduce the number of flights that go into that airport as this gets sorted out.
Is that indeed the plan, and do you expect your competitor airlines to go along with it?
SCOTT KIRBY: That is the plan. We've already started that process at United, as the largest airline there.
I do think everyone will do it. The secretary of transportation deserves immense credit and the FAA for doing it. It's not an easy step to take, but it is the right step for customers. And, again, if they didn't do that, the margin of safety would be the same, but the – the airport would just have more delays and cancellations and issues for customers.
But because they're doing that, we're already back to operating a reliable airline for all airlines at Newark, and this will just ensure that we do it and get through the summer and have time to make sure that that we get back to full capacity.
ED O'KEEFE: We've seen the transportation secretary in recent days call for tens of billions of dollars to be spent at least over the next three to four years to begin that equipment upgrade and retraining of air traffic controllers.
He can't put a number on it. The House, at least, has put about $12.5 billion to start. But everyone seems to acknowledge it's going to be a lot more than that. Is that sufficient? And don't you need help now, as opposed to three to four years from now?
SCOTT KIRBY: Well, I think this is the most optimistic I have been in my entire career about finally getting the FAA fixed.
I mean, I and others in the aviation industry have been working on this for decades. And I think we're finally – we've turned the corner, and we have the commitment. It's bipartisan. It's bicameral. It's, you know, Senate, House, administration, Secretary Duffy, across the board, a commitment to getting this fixed. We know how to do it.
We just need the will to actually follow through and get it done.
ED O'KEEFE: What makes you more optimistic that it's going to get done now? This has been something they've been talking about since the Bush administration at the beginning of the century.
SCOTT KIRBY: Yes.
ED O'KEEFE: And they haven't been able to get it done.
SCOTT KIRBY: Yes.
ED O'KEEFE: And every few years, someone comes up with a plan.
SCOTT KIRBY: Well…
ED O'KEEFE: And you guys and everyone in Congress go, oh, it's great, it's bipartisan, it's got everything we need, and it goes nowhere. So why on earth is it more likely to happen this time?
SCOTT KIRBY: Yes. There's two things that make it different today than in the past. One, they've asked for all of the funding up front.
In the past, it's always been a year at a time. And when you do things a year at a time, especially in government, like, it just stops and starts and stops and starts. You can't do these big projects – like, no company would try to do big projects a year at a time. So, this time, they're going to ask for all the money up front, which lets you plan the entire project and get the entire project done.
And the second thing is people. You know, we have a secretary who's action- oriented, who's committed to getting this done, and an FAA administrator that hopefully will get approved soon.
ED O'KEEFE: Now they say they're going to give the money up front for this project, but, at the same time, they're talking about cuts to the Transportation Department and other cuts to the FAA as part of the DOGE project.
Do you have any insights into how those potential cuts could affect operations of the FAA?
SCOTT KIRBY: I think Secretary Duffy probably is the – the leading, gold star for how to manage through the DOGE process, which is, they put – they called it caution tape, around all the safety, controller, all the critical functions.
And – and DOGE went and looked. And – and I think they took 400 – about 400 jobs out of over 100,000 jobs, back-office kinds of jobs. I think they've done a very effective job of protecting that core safety, operational work force.
One of the big challenges is, the controller work force is about 30 percent short, and getting back to full staffing in the controller work force is something that Secretary Duffy and the entire FAA are committed to doing.
ED O'KEEFE: But – OK, so you're telling us, then, the secretary has assured you there will be DOGE cuts, of course, but none of them will affect safety at the FAA or anything safety-related at DOT?
SCOTT KIRBY: He has absolutely assured me of that, and it's not just the secretary. The people at the working level at the FAA have told our teams that as well.
It's really across the board. And this goes to the whole safety point for aviation. It's so in the DNA of everyone that's affiliated with it that nobody would ever even think to compromise on safety. And that's – that's not happening on a day-to-day basis at Newark. It's not happening anywhere in the airspace, and it's not going to happen with any kind of cuts that happen at the DOT or the FAA.
(End VT)
ED O'KEEFE: You can see our full interview with Scott Kirby on our Web site, FacetheNation.com, and our YouTube page.
Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: President Trump departs to the Middle East tomorrow.
Our Imtiaz Tyab has the latest.
IMTIAZ TYAB: Well, the Trump administration is at the center of three fast-moving international flash points, first Russia and Ukraine.
Last night, President Vladimir Putin proposed direct peace talks with Ukraine in the Turkish capital of Istanbul this Thursday, without preconditions. The offer follows a dramatic visit to Kyiv by the leaders of the U.K., France, Germany, and Poland, a powerful show of support for Ukraine.
Now, President Zelenskyy has welcomed the proposal, calling it a positive sign and saying there was no point in continuing the killing. But, for now, the fighting continues.
Second, India and Pakistan. A U.S.-brokered cease-fire between the nuclear rivals collapsed within hours on Saturday, after both sides accused each other of fresh strikes in the disputed region of Kashmir. Now, the deal followed days of diplomacy by Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Vice President J.D. Vance. President Trump claimed credit for the breakthrough, but cross-border missile and drone attacks quickly resumed.
"The New York Times" is also reporting both countries briefly placed nuclear forces on alert, a sobering reminder of how dangerous and volatile the situation there remains.
And, third, the Middle East. President Trump is heading to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Qatar to push for trade deals, oil concessions and Gulf investment. He's skipping Israel amid soaring violence in Gaza, where aid agencies warn of a deepening humanitarian catastrophe. Israel has not allowed any aid to enter the territory for over two months now.
Electricity and clean water are nearly nonexistent, medical supplies are running out, and the few remaining hospitals are barely functioning. U.N. officials also warn, famine is imminent and are calling for an immediate cease-fire to allow lifesaving assistance in.
In all three arenas, the Trump administration is wielding influence, Ed, but not necessarily control.
ED O'KEEFE: Imtiaz Tyab reporting from London, thanks for that.
Now we turn to Texas Republican Congressman Michael McCaul, who joins us from Austin. He is a senior member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and the House Homeland Security Committee.
Congressman, thank you for being with us.
I wanted to start first with the situation in Ukraine, because, over the weekend, the U.S., Europe and Ukraine, put forward a proposal now for a 30- day cease-fire that would start on Monday.
President Putin has essentially flouted it and is calling for direct talks again with Ukraine to be held in Turkey at some point, without conditions. How close are we, do you think, to a breakthrough?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-Texas): If I could first, Ed, say Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers, especially my wife, Linda.
Now, getting on to the subject at hand, it's – it's very intense. You know, there was a 30-day cease-fire called for. Mr. Putin decided to bomb Ukraine on Palm Sunday. He's not making any concessions at all, while Zelenskyy seems to be making all the concessions.
So, if – the bottom line is, Putin has to agree to a 30-day cease-fire for any peace talks to go forward. And the land that he is asking for is – you know, even J.D. Vance talked about this and the president – you know, land that – that Russia has not even occupied in Ukraine. So he has to operate in good faith. We want peace, but not peace at any price, because peace at any price is like appeasement, like we saw with Chamberlain and Hitler, and that's unacceptable.
ED O'KEEFE: Now, the president has suggested in the past week that the U.S. might impose additional sanctions on Russia if they don't agree to this cease-fire.
You know that South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham has at least 70 of his colleagues in the Senate on board with a new sanctions bill. You're on the House version of it as well.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Yes.
ED O'KEEFE: How likely is that legislation to get to the floor?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: That's really up to Mr. Putin. I mean, whether there are sanctions or another supplemental bill to fund this conflict, we'd like to see this thing over with.
The pope, who I'm so proud of being a Catholic, an American pope, called for peace, but not at any price. And so if Mr. Putin does not agree to a 30-day cease-fire, I think these sanctions are almost certain, not only from the Congress, but from the White House.
ED O'KEEFE: Well, OK, that's one way to call out Russia, the other, I suppose were you to put pressure on Russia by continuing to arm Ukraine.
You were instrumental in getting that last round of military aid for Ukraine passed, but Speaker Johnson has said there's no plan to bring a new round of military aid to the House floor. What do you need to do now to convince the speaker to hold a vote on that legislation?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, getting it passed the last time was a major accomplishment. Had we not accomplished that, Ed, Russia would be occupying Ukraine today, no question in my mind.
There is presidential drawdown authorities for more weapons to go into Ukraine if Mr. Putin decides to not negotiate in good faith. So, again, it's really, up to Mr. Putin, who so far has not been negotiating in good faith, as to how we proceed from here. And we all want this war to end. We all want peace, but we want a just peace.
ED O'KEEFE: The president, as we mentioned, is headed to the Middle East tomorrow, on Monday.
There are reports he's no longer demanding Saudi recognition of Israel as a condition for a nuclear deal with the United States. Is that a mistake, or is this nuclear agreement so critical that not acknowledging Ukraine, letting that go is OK?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: We don't have all the details. I know he's there to discuss an economic alliance with the Saudis, with the UAE, with the Arab nations.
And that's important, just like the minerals deal that the Ukraine parliament voted for. The more economically we're tied to the Middle East…
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: … the more we're security-tied.
And that – that will push China out of the region. The ultimate goal here, though, is a normalization agreement with Israel. We were getting close to that, until Iran decided, through its proxy in Gaza in Hamas, to invade on October 7.
So, the point is, we need to be talking about all this as a package. But, again, we cannot have normalization until you have a cease-fire in Gaza. And I think that's the more difficult piece here.
ED O'KEEFE: There's so many conflicts in the world. I, of course, meant Israel. You acknowledged that in your answer there, the idea of normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel. A lot of issues around the world.
There is one issue, though, back here at home I want to talk to you about, again, because you're a member of the House Homeland Security Committee. Over the weekend, we saw Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrest the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, outside a federal detention center, and they're now threatening to arrest three Democratic members of Congress for allegedly assaulting or touching an ICE agent there on the scene.
I'm just curious, should ICE be arresting or even threatening to arrest members of Congress?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I mean, that's obviously a very drastic move. I would only do that if they were complicit with a crime.
I don't know all the facts behind this. If they were just visiting a detention center, that's – I have done that many times. If they're disrupting law enforcement, that's another question. So, you know, we can peacefully protest in this country, but you cannot be complicit with gang violence against our law enforcement. And I think perhaps that's what it comes down to.
Ed, if I could just add one last thing on the Gaza, Governor David Beasley, who won the Nobel Peace Prize, has been recently tasked into an effort, if you will. And I just talked to him on the phone, had many conversations with the Arab nations to try to get this aid into Gaza. He was a former World Food Program president.
If anybody can get this thing done, it's him. And so I hold great hope that he may be able to bring an end to this conflict in Gaza. Then we can get to normalization. Then, for the first time in our lifetime, we could see true peace in the Middle East.
ED O'KEEFE: There were reports that Beasley was going to be in charge of some kind of new effort. Are you telling us that he's officially told you that's the plan now, that he's been hired to do it?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, it's not official yet.
ED O'KEEFE: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I anticipate it will be. And he's had the conversations with the Arab nations who very much trust him based on his prior performance.
ED O'KEEFE: Sure, absolutely, well known for his work with the World Food Program.
I do want to ask you one other thing, though, in the homeland security realm, because this past week, as well White House senior adviser Stephen Miller said habeas corpus can be suspended at the time of an invasion, saying the administration is looking at ways to potentially do away with due process for undocumented immigrants.
You're an attorney. You're someone who deals with homeland security issues and immigration, being there from the Lone Star State. Is suspending habeas corpus for undocumented immigrants a good idea?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, this is – was done by President Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War. It's a very extreme measure, you know, to take.
Any person in the United States under the Constitution has due process rights. So, I think the courts are going to decide this one as to whether this invasion, in fact, constitutes a – what would be a state of war. Some would say it would. People in my state of Texas see an invasion and the drug cartels and the danger that they bring into my state in this country.
I think that will be a very interesting legal argument before the court.
ED O'KEEFE: Well, curious to call in an invasion, especially when the administration likes to remind us that border crossings are, of course, at a historic low. So that'll be part of the legal debate. I suppose.
Congressman…
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: They have gone down substantially, yes.
ED O'KEEFE: They sure have.
Congressman Michael McCaul, thank you for globe-trotting with us this morning. We appreciate it.
And we'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: We will have much more in our next half-hour, including New Mexico's Democratic Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, who's standing by.
And a reminder, if you miss a broadcast, you can always catch up on our Web site, FacetheNation.com, and our YouTube page. Or you can listen to full episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: We will be right back with New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, plus Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago and the U.K. ambassador to the U.S.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We turn now to New Mexico's Democratic governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham, who is joining us this morning from Santa Fe.
Governor, great to see you.
Part of the reason we wanted to hear from you this week is Republicans here in Washington are debating the future of Medicaid and are proposing all sorts of potential changes to the program. Your state's got the highest Medicaid enrollment per capita last we checked. We're hoping to get some clarity this week on what it is exactly Republicans are thinking of doing with their budget blueprint regarding Medicaid. But I understand, 70 percent – more than 70 percent of Medicaid coverage in your state comes from federal funding. If they start to make cuts of any sort, do you have a plan to make up the difference?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM (D-NM): Well, look, I think every state, including this one, is going to do everything they can to protect the people that they are serving. And so, we'll do the very same. And, in fact, we've created sort of these Medicaid and related healthcare state funded programs and trust funds.
But this is very simply an effort to destroy health care as we know it, to rip it away from everyday Americans, make it more costly for everybody else. It will close hospitals. I think something like 432 hospitals across the country are on the edge right now. About a third of their funding comes – or more comes from Medicaid. So, you have less providers, you have fewer access points.
No state, including this one, no state can take this kind of cost shifting. And, you know, businesses then don't have employees because they don't have access to health care. It has a huge economic factor that they aren't talking about, which is outrageous.
Let me do one more quick point, because I know we want to get to other stuff. We had a governor who was trying to, I think, right before me, my – Governor Martinez, and to her credit was looking at ways, in a recession era economy in New Mexico, to look to have cost savings. They completely cut behavioral health out of Medicaid. And more than a decade later, we are still digging out. Providers left. Contractors left. People don't have access. People died. More drug abuse. More drug addiction. More behavioral health high-risk issues. It is a disaster. And people will die. Children will die.
ED O'KEEFE: I do wonder, as part of this potential rollback, would you have to revisit the decision to expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act if the federal government cuts back on funding.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: So, I'm committed in New Mexico to invest in quality and access. If we were to roll back those expansions, we can't do that.
I would assume that my legislature is going to expect me, so I'm going to - - it's a teaser, that I'm going to come out for making sure that we hold Medicaid until – if they cuts come, we get Congress – so this is a plea to everyday Americans. You call your member of Congress. You let them know what this impact means to you and your family.
Women. Remember, few other OB/GYNs, fewer access points, higher maternal health mortality rates, higher infant mortality rates.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: We need to make sure that Congress understands, this is no way to adjust or address health care issues, which could use some efficiencies, and could some – use some equality investments. There's no doubt that there's some waste and fraud. Do that. Indiscriminately just tearing apart Medicaid means that you are going after hard-working Americans in favor of billionaires and corporations who don't need or are asking for this $1.5 trillion tax cut.
ED O'KEEFE: That is – this is an issue that each and every governor is going to have to deal with in one way or another as – as the Congress sorts out what to do.
I want to ask you about a more unique one, two. New Mexico and just a handful of other states. You, of course, share a border with Mexico. And the Trump administration has now set up a unique national defense area along that roughly 170-mile span, giving the Army control of that region for about three years. You're looking at a map there. That area in yellow is essentially this new national defense area. It means troops can detain trespassers who enter the area. I'm curious, does this ease your concerns about border crossings as a border state governor? Is this the way to do it?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: I don't think it is. That is not my – my most major concern in the lack of due process and what I believe are clear violations to the Constitution and what we're doing about immigration. Here's what I believe we ought to be doing, and I believe the majority of the members of my state, pass border policy in Congress. Hire more border patrol agents. Make sure we're using the military in places we need them. Make sure that states have access to their guard for natural disasters and related issues. This makes no sense.
We've had the lowest for several administration now border crossings. We should be doing more. We should be doing more to prevent folks from not having access, to be able to get visas and claim refugee and asylum status. We shouldn't just be doing that to South Africans. This makes no sense.
But that's not my biggest issue. My bigger issue is indiscriminate ICE raids and sweeps sowing fear in communities and with businesses all across the country. And that includes many communities right here in New Mexico.
I've done a border flyover. I'm paying attention. You know, it's – it's disconcerting to see tanks rolling right along your border acting and demonstrating these sort of military powers in that way.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: But I would prefer that Congress, the quicker they pass a border bill, a bipartisan border bill, then maybe we would have some common sense in this debate. Go after the cartel.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: Go after bad members. Bring me public safety. Do that statewide. That makes the difference. They aren't doing that. They're rolling around in tanks, allegedly detaining 100 people or more in I don't know what timeframe.
ED O'KEEFE: We'll continue –
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM Because that information's hard to get.
ED O'KEEFE: Right. We'll continue to track it and ask those questions to get a sense of how many are being detained.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: OK.
ED O'KEEFE: Governor, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
And we'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: Pope Leo XIV called for peace around the world during an address to a crowd in St. Peter's Square this morning. His first Sunday blessings as head of the global catholic church. He emphasized the need for a lasting peace in Ukraine, and he called for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.
Earlier this weekend, the new pope held his first meeting with the college of cardinals. After that meeting, we spoke with Chicago Cardinal Blase Cupich about what the new pope said and what it means for the church and the world's 1.4 billion Catholics.
(BEGIN VT)
ED O'KEEFE: We know that one of the things he discussed with all of you is concerns about artificial intelligence, saying that it is one of the critical issues facing humanity. Did he explain why?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH (Archbishop of Chicago): He said that in the context of linking to the work of Leo XIII during the moment of the industrial revolution, saw that as a new era. And so he sees this opportunity right now of his service as Leo XIV to take up the challenge of a new technology, namely artificial intelligence, and what that means to humanity.
He offered those remarks to give us an idea that he sees that we are at a new moment in history and that the church has to be sensitive and aware of what's going on.
ED O'KEEFE: I imagine this will be the subject of great prayer and reflection by him and by all of you, but what possibly could the catholic church do to regulate or police or control the use of artificial intelligence?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: I think it's probably up to legislators to put in measures that regulate. I think what we can do is to speak to the moral and human issues that are involved as this technology develops. How is it that we can continue to preserve our humanity and also grow in it.
I think there are some wonderful opportunities for artificial intelligence, but also some challenges that are unforeseen. The measuring rod has to be, however, what does it do to our human nature? What does it do to our ability to act in a very human way? Those questions, I think, are – we are very well versed in to be able to speak to and offer the world some advice.
ED O'KEEFE: You know, any time a priest, a bishop, a cardinal begins a mass, you always beginning by saying, peace be with you. And it was one of the first things he said form the balcony there in St. Peter's Square when he greeted the crowd. I'm curious, as pope, what does he make of this world on fire, and what can he possibly do to bring peace to the world?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: He wanted to make sure that we, as a church, presented to the world the opportunity to bring a kind of peace that begins in each one of our hearts. We do see, as Pope Francis said, a world war that's being fought piecemeal. And so my hope would be that he would be – he would be an agent of peace, looking for ways in which humanity can be challenged, to look for ways in which the differences that we have can be resolved in a peaceful way.
You know, the other thing that comes to mind here is that the cardinals came to a decision in just 24 hours. Here we were over – over 130 men representing over 70 nations, and we were able, despite all of the differences that we have in language and culture, to come to a decision in a unified way. Hopefully that is a sign that the world also can work out its difficulties and differences in a way that's peaceful and that unites humanity.
ED O'KEEFE: Do we anticipate that he'll continue Francis' legacy of weighing in on global politics, and is he perhaps calling on all of you, as his brother cardinals, to do the same?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Yes, I think, Ed, he feels an obligation, as I think popes have in the modern era, to speak to the issues of the day. Because we live in a world in which there are real challenges globally. There is, I think, a fresh moment for us to examine, what are the human dimensions of immigration. How do we see global warming impacting us? How the issues related to the suffering of humanity should be – should impact all of us, and make all of us aware and participate in solutions.
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Your Eminence, it is Mother's Day, and I'm curious, what responsibility does the catholic church have to women right now?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Well, it's a great opportunity to wish all mothers a Happy Mother's Day. I think the important aspect that was begun in many ways by Pope Francis is to recognize the gifts and talents of women. They have to be equal partners in offering leadership in the life of the church. Also, that their voice is heard. They come at life differently through their own experience and enrich the discussion.
ED O'KEEFE: But you say there women should be equal partners, but the issue of women ever serving as deacons or priests, of course, is one that even Pope Leo disagrees with. Is this a settled issue, that there will never be that, but that he perhaps continues the elevation of women in other Vatican leadership positions?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Well, yes, because I think that what the question comes down to is, how do we give a place in the life of the church, especially in leadership, and also to have the wisdom of women brought forward in the life of the church. Pope Francis has done that in making, for instance, the governor of Vatican City, for the first time, a woman. A woman who is the head of a major decastry (ph) for religious, for men and women. And so, he has looked for ways in which the very gifts and talents of women can be put to the service of – the life of the church. And I – I am very sure that Pope Leo XIV will do the same.
ED O'KEEFE: Let's get to the question that I think is on the minds of many Americans still, we can't quite fathom the fact that an American is now pope. You've known him for many years. Both of you are sons of the Midwest. He's from the south side of Chicago. You were born in Omaha. You now are the cardinal of Chicago. How do you believe his papacy is going to be shaped by his Midwest roots?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Well, I think that he now has a lot on his shoulders. And having been born in the city of big shoulders, I think he's up to the task.
But I also don't want to underplay the fact that he's been shaped in his experience of living in Peru. The people in Peru consider him their pope, their compatriot, as he's also a citizen of Peru. And also he's has lived on the continent in Europe 12 years here in Rome. So, I think he's been shaped by all of that. But we'll take pride in the fact that it all started in Chicago.
ED O'KEEFE: And if a year from now we're trying to measure the Leo effect, maybe specifically on the American catholic church, how are we going to know that it was a success or a failure so far?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Well, I think that, let's give him time. You know, maybe a year is too quick of a time period to make that assessment. It's a relationship that's going to grow. And I – I just – I think that someone who speaks like an American to Americans is going to be an opportunity, a fresh opportunity to reintroduce the social teachings of the church in a way that's going to make us take a second look at all of that as Catholics in the United States. That's what I'm looking forward to.
ED O'KEEFE: And how soon do we think he'll visit?
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Well, I – it probably won't be the first one, but we're going to do some heavy lobbying for Chicago to be on the itinerary when he comes to the United States.
ED O'KEEFE: I would – I would think he would stop by. Why wouldn't he?
Cardinal Blase Cupich, of Chicago, the windy city, congratulations and thank you for spending some time with us this weekend. We appreciate it.
CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH: Thank you, Ed, for having me. I appreciate it.
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ED O'KEEFE: You can see more from our interview with Cardinal Cupich on our website and our YouTube page. We'll be right back with a lot more FACE THE NATION. Stay with us.
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ED O'KEEFE: We're delighted to turn now to the United Kingdom's ambassador to the United States, Peter Mandelson, who's here making his FACE THE NATION debut.
Ambassador, thank you for being here.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON, (U.K. Ambassador to the United States): It's great to be here. And Happy Mother's Day to all those moms out there.
ED O'KEEFE: Indeed. To all of them wherever they are.
I wanted to start with the fact that the United States and the United Kingdom have now announced a framework – a framework for a trade deal that covers all sorts of things, steel, aluminum, cars, beef. You're scrapping a 20 percent tariff on U.S. beef. You're raising the quote on its imports. Do you have any sense of how soon this deal is going to be finalized, and do you trust that the United States is going to hold up its end of the bargain?
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Oh, yes, we regard it as finalized. A deal is a deal. And I absolutely have no doubt that the president and his colleagues, Secretary Lutnick and USTR Jamison Greer, having said they would do a deal, have been true to their word. They delivered this deal. And I have absolute confidence that they'll see it through.
And it reflects the conflict – the sort of amazing confident relationship between our two countries and the cordial relationship personally between the president and the prime minister.
And now we can build on it. I mean we can look at – look to other trade barriers that we can bring down so as to create more jobs in the United States. And also something very close to my heart. I want to see us build a close U.S./U.K. technology partnership, to invest and build future industries in both our countries, which are science-based and driven by technology.
ED O'KEEFE: Right.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: That would be a great gain for both our countries.
ED O'KEEFE: And that's not part of this deal so it requires another round.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Oh, yes. No, no, no, it's – it's featured in the deal but it requires now work.
ED O'KEEFE: Right.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: To design it.
ED O'KEEFE: My read in the British Press – I'm going to pin this on the British press is, that you've accepted a worse deal than the U.K. had before, just to get out from the shadow of the tariff threat. Is it that you guys perhaps rushed to be first before all other countries?
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: I don't – I don't – literally didn't understand the logic of that. The fact is that –
ED O'KEEFE: Well, you're paying more tariffs than you were before, right? That's part of it.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Well, in some cases. But in other cases we're not. I mean, in some cases we're down to – to zero. So – and in other cases, for example, in autos, we've got absolutely secure quotas for exports to the United States. So, it's a good deal, and I'm very pleased that we've achieved it, but now we have to build on it.
ED O'KEEFE: The other tariff – thing that came up this week that has the potential to adversely affect the British economy is the idea of a 100 percent tariff on any movies produced outside the United States. Have you discussed that yet with the administration? Do you have any sense of how that could adversely affect the British film industry?
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Well, we touched on it. But this is American films taking place in Britain. And we want to protect the American film industry. And tariffs, if you can put a tariff on a film, is not going to do that. But whether it be in respect to films or pharmaceuticals that may be coming down the track towards us, we have an agreement in this deal that British interests will be protect alongside of those of the United States.
ED O'KEEFE: I want to turn to Russia and Ukraine because tat was a great focus of your prime minister this weekend.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Yes.
ED O'KEEFE: He said after the announcement of the proposed ceasefire this weekend that if Putin, quote, "is serious about peace, he has a chance to show it." But he's basically ignored the ceasefire proposal and is now, once again, calling for one-on-one talks. I mean do you – is it the assessment of your government that Russia is at all serious about this?
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Look, at face value it's constructive that he's offered direct talks for Putin with – with the Ukrainians. But then when you look at the small print, you see what he – you see that he wants his talks. So, as to call into question the very existence of Ukraine as a free democratic and sovereign nation.
ED O'KEEFE: Right.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: And in the meantime overnight this weekend we've had Russian munitions and drones raining down on Ukraine and killing Ukrainian people. It doesn't seem serious to us. And we're very glad that the Ukrainians have embraced this ceasefire, as the president asked them to do. But the truth is that it looks as if President Putin is engaging in brinksmanship with President Trump, and certainly as far as we are concerned in Britain, we only want one president to prevail in this standoff, and that's President Trump, not President Putin. And that may require, therefore, additional pressure being mounted on Russia in order to bring them to the negotiating table.
ED O'KEEFE: And I'm curious, you've been around the president in recent days. He's been clearly charmed by you. And you've been talking to the administration about a host of things. Is it – is it your sense that he and his administration has, in essence, turned the corner on the Ukraine/Russia conflict in the last few weeks, siding more now clearly with Ukraine?
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: I think we are at a defining moment in this conflict, this war between – that Russia has launched on Ukraine. And that's why I think that the administration now needs to consider how it's going to pursue its goal of peace. That goal can only be realized if Russia, Putin matches what Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians have offered, which is a 30-day ceasefire during which proper negotiations can take place. That's what we need to see.
ED O'KEEFE: Does the United States need to pass a new round of sanctions against Russia if they don't follow through in the next few days?
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: Well, Senator Lindsey Graham has a bill and –
ED O'KEEFE: He does, yes.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: With your (ph) colleagues up on – on The Hill, and think the administering will want to judge the timeliness, the appropriateness of backing that bill.
ED O'KEEFE: All right. Ambassador Peter Mandelson, thank you so much for stopping by. Don't be a stranger. Come again.
AMBASSADOR PETER MANDELSON: I'd love to.
ED O'KEEFE: All right. Thank you.
We'll be back in a moment. Stay with us.
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ED O'KEEFE: That's it for us today. Thank you so much for watching.
Margaret's going to be back next Sunday.
I'd be remiss if I didn't say Happy Mother's Day to mom, to my mother-in- law, to my wife, and to all the mothers at CBS News and those of you watching. Tune in next Sunday to see who's here to FACE THE NATION. Take care.
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