'Hot' filmmaker talks about life as California wildland firefighter

For more than six years, filmmaker Gabriel Kirkpatrick Mann worked with a group of wildland firefighters in California whose expertise was fighting large, high-priority fires. Known as hotshots and managed by a range of agencies including the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management, these experts receive intensive training and represent the federal government in some of the country's most dangerous fires. Although their duties and risks are the same as firefighters, these first responders are technically called “forestry technicians.”

This is a point that Mann, who has worked as a DP and crew member in Hollywood for many years, emphasizes in his 2023 documentary and directorial debut, expert (Available to stream on Amazon Prime, Apple and the film's own website).

“It destroys them,” Mann said of the all-consuming and extremely dangerous work. “They take a fatalistic approach to their work, but they keep going. The same thing happens to me because I just want to capture it.”

According to the documentary, there are a total of 115 Hotshot crews in the United States, with each crew having about 20-25 people. Forty-nine of those crews work in California alone, with five crews dedicated to the Los Angeles National Forest — underscoring that wildfires are a significant threat in Southern California. Hotshots' primary duties include firefighting, which means they are tasked with clearing vegetation, brush and other obstacles that promote the spread of wildfires in extreme terrain. They also work alongside regional and local firefighters to fight major fires, often earning a fraction of the wages and benefits of their counterparts. According to ZipRecruiter, the average annual salary for a forestry technician is $41,000.

Phil Donlon Producer capable person (And also on NBC’s chicago fire)Tell rolling stones The documentary team hopes to bring these issues to the forefront and bring about change for the Hotshot team.

“What we discovered while making this documentary is that Fire is not political,” Donlon said. “It doesn't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican, and it doesn't care what your race or religion is. It's a destroyer of equal opportunity. Hopefully through this movie, even through this disaster that we're going through right now (in Los Angeles) , we can all come together.”

Mann and Donlon spoke to Rolling Stone about what they learned during the production capable personCalifornia wildfires, and what changes they want forestry technicians to see on a larger scale.

What inspired you to do this project?
Gabriel Kirkpatrick Mann: I live in the Fire Nation (Los Angeles area), so it's all around me, but I also have unique access, which definitely gives you a lot of influence. Hotshots hate the media. They just want to put their heads down and disappear deep into the woods to finish their work. But if you are a member of the family, then they will naturally feel more comfortable with you. There's something called a “firefly” – something fascinating you encounter when you witness a wildfire. It really fascinates you. I think it touches on something elusive and you become addicted to it. This actually happened to me. (But) you spend enough time there, year after year, when you see the same patterns repeat themselves, you see thousands of homes burned, thousands of cars, animals and people suffering , it starts to really wear you down. The purpose of this film is to try to convey the feeling of fire season.

Can you explain the difference between a firefighter and a forestry technician?
GKM: ““Forestry Technician” is a label applied to persons under federal employment performing wildland firefighter duties with the Forest Service. Their duties are no different than any other firefighter at a municipal agency or Cal Fire (the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection), but there is this bureaucratic loophole that prevents the federal government from treating them like firefighters. They don't receive the same hazard pay (additional compensation for working in extremely hazardous conditions) as partner agencies, and their base pay ends up being about one-third that of partner agencies. For example, when a fire breaks out in the Los Angeles National Forest, both Los Angeles County and the Los Angeles Forest respond. They work side by side. But Los Angeles County workers are paid three times as much to do the same job.

Seeing their agencies continue to refer to them as forestry technicians instead of revering them as firefighters, while this may sound small, does have a profound impact on them. The place that has the most profound impact is the funeral. When they see some of their fellow citizens die, the agency suddenly calls them “our beloved firefighters,” but when it comes to their pay, it's like, “Fuck you, 'forest technicians.'” There's a line in the documentary , one forestry technician said, “They don't call you a firefighter until you die.” It's heartbreaking, man. When I heard this, it hit me to the core because it's so sick and it's really hard to wrap your head around it.

Given these difficulties, what do you think motivates people to become forestry technicians?
Knowledge management: Young people are attracted to challenge and danger. It’s just a tricky reality of being a male. There are also some women. They really enjoy being challenged. But another thing I noticed is that some people have this gene and they are forced to serve. It's a compulsion. This is not an idea. They have no active interest. It's like an addiction and they endure so much abuse because they feel called to serve their country and their community. You see a lot of veterans turning into wildland fires because those are the people who say, “My body doesn't serve any purpose and I need to get rid of it for my community. That's what I'm here for.” This It is indeed a unique characteristic that is difficult for them to deal with. It was a strange impulse to serve and I think they enjoyed it and were very proud of the pain they had to endure.

What changes would you like to see happen to forestry technicians?
Knowledge management: Firefighters are probably the most respected profession in our country and culture, and there's a reason for that. It is a selfless act of service, risking one’s life. So it's really devastating for forestry technicians to be treated by bureaucracy like they're not risking their lives on the job, and I think it's important to highlight that.

We need to stop the loss of the federal wildland workforce. In just a few years, we lost over 40% of our workforce, a large part of which was wages. We need to update their wages so they can afford to live in the places they protect. There’s the Tim Hart Act (advocating for pay and benefits for federal wildland firefighters) and the Wildland Firefighter Paycheck Protection Act (which would create a dedicated pay scale for wildlife firefighters). These need to be passed immediately. Firefighters have this colloquial saying: They'll say, “We get paid at sunset, and the view is really worth it.” But we've invested millions of dollars training these experienced forestry technicians, and we're losing them , because they can no longer afford it, so we have to start over. This results in more deaths because each crew member has less experience. So we need to stop the bleeding in the workforce and get them paid. We also need to take mass shooting operations very seriously. We need to burn millions of acres. Until California adopts this mindset, nothing will change.

In the documentary, you talk about how the media sensationalizes wildfires in their coverage, calling it “fire porn.” Where do you think the line is between news value and hot porn?
General knowledge management: There is a very fine, perhaps subjective, line. Eventually, I shot it there as well. I think the real dividing line is the quality of the message, the time and effort it takes to truly understand the subject matter, understand the people in it, listen to them, and convey the message accurately. The reason why porn is hot is because it is just indulgent and sensational, and the quality of the information is not good. One of the biggest issues with wildfires is retaining forestry technicians because working conditions are terrible, so how is that not a focus of the coverage?

Phil Donlon: And, everyone is paying attention to it. It's like dopamine. You can't stop. The news would go something like this: “Dennis Quaid is shitting out of his house.” Even though a lot of people are watching the documentary now, a lot of my friends in California are like, “I can't watch it right now because I have a day Watching TV 24 hours a day. “This news report scares people. There might be a valuable piece of information or two in there, but most of it is fear-based stuff.

Based on your experience making this documentary, what do you think people should be thinking about right now when it comes to the wildfires in Los Angeles?
PD: I certainly think people should get involved locally right now. It is important to get involved locally as well as at the state and county level. I don't necessarily mean to remove (Los Angeles Mayor) Karen Bass from office. I'm talking about having a prescribed burn plan, being proactive as a community, and clearing your brush, because if you clear your brush and your neighbor doesn't, then there's no impact.

Knowledge management: Understanding your environment is crucial and you must take control of your space. You must take personal responsibility. This means cleaning your gutters and removing brush from around your property. If you want to live in an environment where fire is a permanent part of the ecosystem, you have to accept it.

What do you hope viewers take away from this documentary?
General knowledge management: I hope audiences will grasp what I learned from the experience of making this film: that there is beauty in the raw power of nature, but also the dichotomy of destruction versus rebirth and renewal.

PD: We wanted to create a picture that you can enjoy as much as you would any movie. The best thing for me is when you leave with a photo and are inspired to have a conversation, no matter how difficult the subject.